Episode 10: Walt's Ex-Wife

[00:00:07] Who Killed Beth-Ellen, Episode 10

[00:00:17] Ricky, Brian, and Walt, the last known people to see Beth-Ellen alive.

[00:00:35] That was 1994.

[00:00:37] And three years later, Walt would meet Beverly.

[00:00:46] Beverly was from Buffalo, New York.

[00:00:53] In 1997, she moved down to Raleigh and got a job at a Winn-Dixie.

[00:01:00] So Beth-Ellen and Ricky were just kind of hanging out in the apartment.

[00:01:04] And then Walt was at work.

[00:01:06] You know, this is earlier.

[00:01:07] So then Walt gets off work and Brian went to go pick him up.

[00:01:12] So Brian goes to pick up Walt from work.

[00:01:18] And where was Walt working at the time?

[00:01:21] So he was working at a, I believe it was a Winn-Dixie up there in North Hills.

[00:01:28] Beverly got the job at that same Winn-Dixie.

[00:01:31] And Walt was still working there.

[00:01:37] Well, he got stuff training me, which then he liked me because he thought I was just going

[00:01:42] to be this, you know, stupid cashier and that.

[00:01:45] And within an hour, he was just like, oh, all right.

[00:01:50] Because I knew all the codes in that for produce and that from working at grocery stores beforehand.

[00:01:56] And I knew how to do everything.

[00:01:58] He thought he was going to like have to spend days training me because, you know,

[00:02:02] I was just going to be another one of the dumb cashiers, as he put it.

[00:02:07] November 23rd was our first date.

[00:02:10] And I remember that because that's my birthday.

[00:02:13] So less than a month after we met, we started dating.

[00:02:19] Tell me just about Walt's personality and like, you know, for people that have never met Walt.

[00:02:23] He's very quiet and kind of introvert, perhaps would be the best word.

[00:02:33] Not very social, but he's definitely highly intelligent.

[00:02:37] Really into technology and computers, computer stuff and that.

[00:02:41] So when did you move in with Walt?

[00:02:46] Um, March of 98.

[00:02:48] So about three and a half years after Beth Ellen's murder, Beverly and Walt began living together.

[00:02:54] And they'd lived together for about the next 20 years.

[00:02:58] For this investigation, I've been focusing on all of the connections before and after the murder.

[00:03:06] If there was more to the story with Ricky's involvement,

[00:03:10] who was Ricky, Brian and Walt connected to after 1994?

[00:03:17] Through work, relationships and living situations.

[00:03:21] If there was more to the story, who could they have told that to?

[00:03:26] When you first met Walt, who was Walt living with?

[00:03:30] He had a female roommate, but she had a boyfriend that was always around.

[00:03:35] I believe they had lived together for about a year at the point when I met him.

[00:03:41] And that was the only roommate?

[00:03:43] Yeah, she was the only one.

[00:03:47] Her name was Susan, and she met Walt through the Rockola Connection.

[00:03:53] Susan's roommate before Walt worked at the Rockola Restaurant.

[00:03:57] With Ricky and Brian.

[00:03:59] So Susan knew those guys too.

[00:04:03] Susan and Walt were roommates for about a year, around 1997.

[00:04:09] She told me she heard about Beth Ellen from those guys or people at Rockola.

[00:04:13] But she never heard or got the feeling that Ricky could have been involved at all in the murder.

[00:04:19] She said Ricky, Brian and Walt all seemed like really nice guys.

[00:04:24] And was Susan still living there when you moved in, or had she already moved out?

[00:04:28] Yeah, she lived there until May.

[00:04:32] Beverly had a great memory for all these details that happened over 20 years ago.

[00:04:37] Okay, and then when you moved in with Walt, did y'all ever have a roommate?

[00:04:42] Or was it just y'all after that?

[00:04:43] No, he ended up getting another roommate.

[00:04:47] His name was Cassius Clay Harris.

[00:04:50] Hmm, okay, yeah.

[00:04:51] I've seen his name pop up.

[00:04:54] Cassius Clay Harris.

[00:04:56] And was he friends with Ricky and Brian too?

[00:05:00] No.

[00:05:00] How did he know Walt?

[00:05:02] I think Walt had put a roommate's wanted ad online, and he answered that.

[00:05:07] Yeah.

[00:05:08] I believe that's actually how that happened.

[00:05:10] I also talked to Cassius Clay Harris.

[00:05:12] He had actually never heard about Beth Ellen.

[00:05:15] Cassius was about 10 years older than Walt.

[00:05:17] He said Walt was a good roommate, but they didn't really hang out.

[00:05:20] They just did their own thing.

[00:05:22] Well, and how long did you guys live with Cassius Clay Harris?

[00:05:27] A little over five years.

[00:05:28] She stayed with us.

[00:05:30] Oh, really?

[00:05:31] Wow.

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:32] He stayed with us until we ended up buying our first house in Clayton.

[00:05:36] Walt does sound like a real accommodating guy.

[00:05:40] He told Cassius he could come and stay with them in their new house until he found his next place.

[00:05:45] Cassius had moved out by the time Walt and Beverly got married.

[00:05:48] And we were married in December of 2004 and divorced in 2020 was when it was finalized.

[00:05:59] I don't remember the exact date for that.

[00:06:01] And what was the deal?

[00:06:03] Just the relationship just kind of fizzled out or was there anything?

[00:06:06] Different months and we'd argue a lot.

[00:06:10] But, you know, he didn't like me being social and me going out so much because he didn't want to ever socialize.

[00:06:17] So it's just different interests.

[00:06:20] So the quick timeline for Walt and Beverly.

[00:06:22] They were together from 1997 to 2020.

[00:06:26] And before we really dive into Beverly's information, I think it's important to note, even though they got divorced, I never got the sense she had any ill will towards Walt.

[00:06:38] He has a good heart.

[00:06:39] He was very good to me throughout our relationship and that, you know, he didn't raise his voice even much with me.

[00:06:46] And honestly, when he did it, I'm not going to lie.

[00:06:49] It was usually because I was being irrational, which I can be at times.

[00:06:55] So, but it took a lot to get him upset.

[00:06:58] All right.

[00:06:59] Now you've got the backstory.

[00:07:01] Let's go back to 1997 and start digging into this case.

[00:07:06] And then so at that point, when you meet Walt, who would you say his best friends were?

[00:07:11] And kind of like, how would you rank them?

[00:07:13] Like, best, best friend going down the list.

[00:07:16] Brian would be the one he seemed closest to.

[00:07:21] Okay.

[00:07:21] And then Rick.

[00:07:24] Ricky, whichever one you wanted to call him.

[00:07:27] Ed Draper was another one that was his way around.

[00:07:31] You heard Ed Draper's name in episode six.

[00:07:34] Do you have any idea why Beth Ellen would be too scared to break up with Rick?

[00:07:39] I don't.

[00:07:40] Ed Draper told me that Rick had become obsessed with Beth Ellen and that he and the other roommates couldn't stand to be around him anymore.

[00:07:49] Ed told me this on a total different occasion.

[00:07:55] And Dave Davis would fly up from Florida.

[00:08:00] Dave Davis was another of Ricky and Brian's closest friends.

[00:08:04] He also grew up in the Goldsboro area.

[00:08:06] Dave never went to NC State, but he lived up there in Raleigh for a year or so.

[00:08:11] He and Ricky had an apartment around 95, 96 before Dave moved down to Florida.

[00:08:18] So, yeah, he'd come up, you know, usually a couple times a year.

[00:08:23] And Eric, but I cannot remember his last name for the life of me.

[00:08:28] So Brian and Walt and Ricky, too, they had a friend named Eric this particular night.

[00:08:39] Eric was moving.

[00:08:41] Brian had gone over to help Eric move.

[00:08:45] Yeah, that Eric.

[00:08:47] Oh, there was some other guy, but he wasn't around a lot.

[00:08:50] I wouldn't say they were tight.

[00:08:51] I mean, and I don't know his real name.

[00:08:53] I just know we called him Tigger.

[00:08:57] We called him Tigger because he was always bouncing off the walls.

[00:09:01] He was always very hyper.

[00:09:03] I think I, well, they might have met at State, but I think they said that they had known him since high school.

[00:09:10] So, like I said, I mean, we really didn't have many people that weren't, like, it was either that group or, you know, they were really, you know, that they were tight.

[00:09:23] They've known each other and that was it.

[00:09:26] They didn't really seem to bring many other people around.

[00:09:31] So at least from Beverly's perspective, by the time she entered the picture, there were seven guys in the circle.

[00:09:38] Ricky, Brian, Walt, Dave, who lived in Florida by then.

[00:09:44] Eric, Ed, and Tigger.

[00:09:47] I haven't figured out who Tigger is yet.

[00:09:50] Hopefully a listener can help me out with that.

[00:09:52] And it's interesting to note that Brian was Walt's closest friend.

[00:09:57] Well, yeah, and if, like, if Walt was kind of, like, introverted, how did he get along with those guys so well?

[00:10:04] Was it just his crew or?

[00:10:07] Yeah, I mean, it was just they had known each other since high school.

[00:10:11] And so that was, you know, the only reason why he was with them.

[00:10:16] Because they'd even, you know, pick on him like he talked too much in that because he was always so quiet and kept to himself.

[00:10:24] Well, was Walt a big drinker back then?

[00:10:27] Yes.

[00:10:28] Okay.

[00:10:29] Was he, did he stay at, was he always a big drinker when y'all were together or did it kind of taper off?

[00:10:33] Oh, he, he, he tapered off.

[00:10:36] But back then in 97, he was a big drinker like them.

[00:10:40] Yeah.

[00:10:41] Kind of our thing was just, I mean, all of us, I mean, we'd start off drinking at Rockola because Brian and Rick were working.

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:50] And, well, Eric Hastings worked there too.

[00:10:53] So, you know, they'd be working and like Walt and myself and sometimes Rachel.

[00:11:01] Rachel was also from the Goldsboro area and went to Southern Wayne High School with these guys.

[00:11:07] It's called Southern Wayne because it's in Wayne County.

[00:11:10] You'll remember that Beth Ellen and her crew also went to Southern Wayne, but they were a few years younger.

[00:11:16] At the time, in 1997, Rachel was dating Eric, and they also worked at Rockola.

[00:11:22] We'd be up there drinking beforehand, and then we'd end up next door at Sammy's to drink more.

[00:11:27] Mm-hmm. Sounds like college life.

[00:11:31] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:32] Sammy's, another bar, was a couple doors down from Rockola. Sammy's is still there today.

[00:11:38] Okay, so going back to 97, when you first meet Walt, where was everybody living, and who was living with who?

[00:11:46] Who was Rick living with?

[00:11:48] Rick, Brian, Eric, and Rachel all lived together, and I don't remember the name of the apartment complex.

[00:11:56] I just remember it was on Avent Ferry.

[00:11:58] Okay, that was in 97.

[00:12:01] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Did that stay the same, like, 98, 99, or did?

[00:12:06] Yeah, because I remember they ended up moving to another apartment, which was still on Avent Ferry.

[00:12:13] The four of them?

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] Okay.

[00:12:16] And then, I'm trying to remember who the, well, Eric and Rachel ended up breaking up, and I think Rachel moved out, and that was probably 2000.

[00:12:29] Okay, so they broke up in 2000.

[00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:34] Eric moved out, Rachel moved out.

[00:12:37] Well, Eric stayed for a while after him and Rachel broke up. Rachel was the first one to move out.

[00:12:43] Okay.

[00:12:45] Who did she move in with?

[00:12:47] I'm not sure.

[00:12:48] Were you friends with her?

[00:12:50] I mean, we were friends, but I wouldn't say we were really close.

[00:12:53] Like, we didn't really talk unless it was the whole group of us.

[00:12:56] Do you know any of her other friends?

[00:12:59] Any other female friends or anything like that?

[00:13:01] No.

[00:13:03] No.

[00:13:03] That was one thing her and I talked about is that we did tend to socialize with men more.

[00:13:11] Okay.

[00:13:12] So neither one of us had many female friends.

[00:13:15] Didn't have female friends.

[00:13:16] And you don't know who she moved in with?

[00:13:19] No.

[00:13:20] And then, what's your next memory of who was living with who?

[00:13:27] And I guess, when did Rachel and Rick move to Florida?

[00:13:32] Was that like around two?

[00:13:35] That was...

[00:13:36] Hmm.

[00:13:38] Ricky ended up marrying Rachel.

[00:13:40] They tied the knot in Florida in 2002.

[00:13:43] I was told he moved down to Florida to work at a bar restaurant that was opening down there.

[00:13:49] And now, Walt and I were at the house in Clayton.

[00:13:52] Did y'all get married in 2003 or what year did you get married?

[00:13:55] We got married in 2004.

[00:13:58] Okay.

[00:13:59] And so, at that point, when y'all move into Garrison, crew was still pretty much the same?

[00:14:04] Everybody was still hanging out?

[00:14:06] No.

[00:14:06] By that point, I mean, it was kind of, you know, once in a while.

[00:14:11] When Dave came up, that was pretty much...

[00:14:13] By 2003, that was pretty much when everyone would get together was when Dave came up.

[00:14:20] You know, in the early 2000s, everyone started careers and getting married and that and kind

[00:14:27] of, you know, grew apart.

[00:14:29] Besides weddings and that, it got to the point that, you know, didn't really hang out.

[00:14:34] And then, by that point, was Walt still seeing those guys every once in a while?

[00:14:41] No, we actually hadn't seen them in several years by the time we moved over there.

[00:14:47] None of them?

[00:14:48] Nope.

[00:14:52] Would Walt keep up with them on the phone or anything?

[00:14:56] Not really.

[00:14:57] I mean, we exchanged Christmas cards with Ed and Mary Draper, and that was about it.

[00:15:05] Hmm.

[00:15:06] And they wouldn't exchange Christmas cards with Ricky or Brian?

[00:15:09] We didn't even have their address at that point.

[00:15:18] I mean, Rick and Rachel are now married, at least last I knew of.

[00:15:25] I mean, everyone kind of lost touch, I guess, after they got married.

[00:15:28] It seemed like everyone kind of went their own way.

[00:15:34] So around 2005...

[00:15:38] Walt had stopped talking to those guys, and to your knowledge, has he ever talked to them since?

[00:15:44] To my knowledge, no.

[00:15:46] No, it seemed like they'd just lost touch.

[00:15:51] Yeah, so by that point, no real new friends for Walt.

[00:15:55] Walt just kind of...

[00:15:56] What did he do at night?

[00:15:57] Just watch TV or just hang out?

[00:15:59] What was he doing?

[00:15:59] He'd watch TV or he'd come home from work, eat dinner, and go in the office at the house and work more.

[00:16:08] So that's the group's timeline.

[00:16:11] Now we'll go back to 1997 and Beverly's take on Ricky and Brian.

[00:16:16] I liked Brian.

[00:16:17] He was calm and cool.

[00:16:19] I'm not going to lie, Rick was kind of hot-tempered.

[00:16:25] I mean, he was nice, but like I said, if you got him mad, he didn't seem like a nice...

[00:16:33] He didn't want to get him mad, it seemed like.

[00:16:38] He'd get very aggressive.

[00:16:39] I mean, never towards me because I never upset him, but I know they worked at a bar, so customers and that.

[00:16:52] I mean, he never hit anybody or anything, but words that he'd say.

[00:16:58] I mean, he broke a glass or two, but that was it.

[00:17:03] I don't know.

[00:17:04] I just...

[00:17:05] He never seemed like a very happy person to me.

[00:17:08] He was off in another world at times to me.

[00:17:11] I mean, I wasn't there when it happened and that, but I mean, I don't know.

[00:17:17] In my opinion, I always felt like there was something that weighed heavily on him the way he'd look at times.

[00:17:26] I don't know.

[00:17:29] I mean, there are some people you can look at and you can tell that they've got a burden or, you know, have the weight of the world on their shoulders.

[00:17:41] So you met Walt about three years after Beth Ellen's murder.

[00:17:46] When do you remember it first coming up and who told you about Beth Ellen?

[00:17:54] That came up, you know, only a couple weeks after Walt and I met in October of 97.

[00:18:02] I mean, maybe a month around November of 97 was when I first heard about it.

[00:18:09] He said that, you know, mentioned the thing with Beth Ellen and how all that ruined the summer.

[00:18:17] Of course, I wanted to know who Beth Ellen was.

[00:18:19] And he's like, well, Rick was dating her and how she ended up being murdered.

[00:18:24] And I was told they got into an argument before she left that night.

[00:18:30] Hmm.

[00:18:33] And it was quite, I mean, from what I was told, it was heated.

[00:18:36] And he actually slammed the door and he was in his bedroom by himself after that argument.

[00:18:47] Were Walt and Brian there during the argument?

[00:18:50] Yes.

[00:18:51] Well, Walt's the one that told me that they got into a quite big argument because Rick did not want her to go on the call.

[00:19:01] Okay.

[00:19:01] But, you know, obviously, you know, she was set on, she was doing it.

[00:19:06] And, you know, like I said, I mean, it was a heated argument.

[00:19:11] And then he went in the bedroom by himself because he didn't want to be around anyone because he was pissed off.

[00:19:19] Then after she left, that's when Rick or Walt and Brian went to Walmart.

[00:19:26] So my thing is, is that did he leave?

[00:19:28] And they just weren't aware because he was supposedly locked in his bedroom by himself.

[00:19:34] Hmm.

[00:19:36] Did Walt ever tell you or did it ever come up what they were getting at Walmart?

[00:19:41] No.

[00:19:42] And did he tell you what they all did when him and Brian did get back from Walmart?

[00:19:47] They all got a beer and they went to their own rooms because, you know, the, after the whole, you know, heated argument with Rick and Beth Allen and that nobody really wanted to be social after that.

[00:20:02] I mean, is your understanding that Rick was just hanging out in the living room like when they got back or was Rick just in his bedroom?

[00:20:10] No, he said Rick was in the living room when they got back.

[00:20:13] Okay.

[00:20:14] So Rick was in the living room.

[00:20:16] Yeah.

[00:20:17] I mean, he just said that it seemed, you know, tense or awkward.

[00:20:23] So they all, you know, he grabbed a beer and went to his room and he believed Ryan and Rick did the same thing.

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[00:21:59] I mean, I remember him just, you know, mentioning that that summer had been ruined because of her murder and being, you know, constantly questioned by the cops that summer.

[00:22:12] Detective Morgan that worked on the case, I'm sure you're familiar with him.

[00:22:17] Detective Morgan came around the case around 1998.

[00:22:20] He was after Detective Lynch and before Detective Falk.

[00:22:25] The timeline he set out, Rick would have been able to do it had he even left for a brief period of time while they were all drinking that night and such.

[00:22:35] I know that from what I was told.

[00:22:37] I wasn't living there at the time, so I don't know.

[00:22:41] But, I mean, college kids, you know, they were partying up that late.

[00:22:45] And, you know, that's the only thing is if he had slipped out, but no one ever said he did.

[00:22:51] But the timeline that Detective Morgan said, I don't know, it did kind of add up.

[00:22:57] Like, he had time to go from, you know, the house to where the crime scene was back home, you know, in that time period.

[00:23:09] So, when did Detective Morgan start talking to Walt?

[00:23:13] That was maybe a year into the relationship.

[00:23:18] So, 98, maybe a year and a half.

[00:23:21] So, it might have been 99 by that time, but...

[00:23:25] And then what do you remember from that encounter?

[00:23:28] Were you sitting on the couch beside Walt or did he say, hey, let me talk to Walt?

[00:23:31] No, I...

[00:23:32] You were sitting there.

[00:23:34] Yeah, I stayed in the room.

[00:23:36] Yeah.

[00:23:38] And at that point, had he already come up with a theory about, well, maybe Ricky could have done it in the timeline.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:47] Even though Walt was saying he was there, or was he...

[00:23:49] No.

[00:23:50] So, he had already come up with that timeline.

[00:23:52] He was like, here's how it could have happened.

[00:23:54] Okay.

[00:23:54] Yeah, the first time with Detective Morgan, he had brought up, you know, the timeline and, you know, it was possible and...

[00:24:01] Did he...

[00:24:02] Do you ever remember him?

[00:24:04] Was he pressing Walt?

[00:24:06] Like, Walt, I think you're lying.

[00:24:08] I think you're lying about Ricky being there.

[00:24:10] No, he never...

[00:24:11] No, he never got like that.

[00:24:13] So, he was pretty cool.

[00:24:15] Okay.

[00:24:16] Yeah, he was...

[00:24:17] No, he never pressed him or anything.

[00:24:18] I mean, he's definitely, you know, he said it was one of the cases that bothered him a lot.

[00:24:24] He definitely wanted answers.

[00:24:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:27] Because it was one of those cases that kept him up at night trying to figure it out.

[00:24:32] Seemed like it was every several months with Detective Morgan coming over for a while.

[00:24:37] Like, every three, four months he was, you know, following up to see if anything, you know, if he did get any new information.

[00:24:45] And most times it was Detective Morgan, you know, at the house questioning Walt and that.

[00:24:51] Did you ever see Rick get emotional when talking about Beth Owen?

[00:24:55] He never talked about her in front of me.

[00:24:57] Okay, so what you're going on is what Walt told you and what you ever heard Walt and Morgan talking about.

[00:25:03] Did anyone else talk about the situation in front of you?

[00:25:07] It was probably about five years into the relationship when Dave Davis had come up from Florida.

[00:25:16] And it was Walt and Dave Davis.

[00:25:21] Oh, Ed Draper was there.

[00:25:23] And that's when they discussed, well, you know, what if he did do it in that?

[00:25:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:30] It was just them three?

[00:25:32] Yeah.

[00:25:33] Dave, Ed.

[00:25:34] Well, I was there.

[00:25:35] And where was that at?

[00:25:36] We had been at Sammy's that night because that was like tradition when Dave came up was that we all met up there.

[00:25:44] And what do you remember them saying?

[00:25:46] I just remember them talking about, you know, the timeline that Detective Morgan put out does make sense,

[00:25:56] but they just didn't, you know, believe he could do something like that.

[00:26:00] Because they were like, well, he did, you know, I guess he did love her from what they said.

[00:26:05] And they're like, but, you know, you get heated with someone you love and, yeah, he could have, you know,

[00:26:12] snapped, but they'd hate to think that he did it.

[00:26:16] But would Walt ever say, well, guys, like, he couldn't have done it because when I came back,

[00:26:22] he was sitting right there and there's just no way I would have known.

[00:26:26] He never really, you know, he never said that.

[00:26:30] Like, no, there's no possible way, you know.

[00:26:32] There always seemed to be that what if.

[00:26:45] Because, you know, what it, you know, if he did and, you know, they're like, oh, he should have cleaned up really quick.

[00:26:51] And, you know, maybe he was still intact.

[00:26:54] So it didn't seem like, you know, he didn't appear, you know, anyway,

[00:26:58] because he was just couldn't believe it himself that he did it.

[00:27:07] Well, did they ever bring up, well, Richie does have a temper or, you know, I have seen him get, act a little crazy at times.

[00:27:16] Yeah, none of them really ever brought that up.

[00:27:19] I mean, I was the first one to bring that up.

[00:27:21] I'm like, I don't know.

[00:27:22] And I'm like, he can, and they did agree.

[00:27:24] I mean, I'm like, he's gotten, you know, upset.

[00:27:29] And he certainly can be hot-tempered and hot-headed.

[00:27:35] But you never remember any kind of discussion of the guys theorizing, like, is it possible Rich did it?

[00:27:43] No, I mean, they did talk about Ed's wedding was one of the places that they theorized, like, you know, what if he did do it?

[00:27:52] And, you know, and he was married to Rachel at that point.

[00:27:59] According to Beverly, this seems to be the guy's theory.

[00:28:06] She was working for an escort service.

[00:28:10] So I guess that was what they always try to say, that it was one of her clients that did it.

[00:28:16] You know, Brian and Rick and them, that they believe it was one of her clients.

[00:28:23] You know, because, you know, it's possible that in that line of work, you know, you do probably end up with, you know, senators and such.

[00:28:33] And if you try to blackmail, but I didn't know her, so I don't know what she, you know.

[00:28:40] Like I said, that was always their thing, that they believed.

[00:28:43] And it was possible that maybe she was trying to blackmail one of the clients and that's, you know, who did it.

[00:28:54] But the thing is, is there, there's no evidence of anything like that.

[00:28:58] My thing is, especially as a female, you're going to want some sort of backup.

[00:29:02] I mean, I'm just saying as a perspective from a female, I mean, if I'm going to do something like that,

[00:29:08] I'm going to run it by the person I'm in a relationship with.

[00:29:12] Like, hey, you know, I got this idea to get, you know, some extra cash.

[00:29:17] What do you think of this?

[00:29:18] I would even give the name of the client, you know, like this is who I'm trying to do, you know, blackmail.

[00:29:24] And this is what I want for it because, you know, I can get this much out of them to keep this hush hush or, you know, whatever it was.

[00:29:31] Right.

[00:29:32] Did Beth Ellen ever tell Ricky?

[00:29:35] As far as I know, no, it was never brought up.

[00:29:39] Where that whole theory came about of the blackmail and her seeing these high-powered clients and things like that was just that anonymous letter.

[00:29:49] And that brought up that theory.

[00:29:51] And it also said Beth Ellen was in some kind of BDSM group.

[00:29:55] Where she was getting kind of like paddled and whipped and faked and all this stuff where she had all these bruises.

[00:30:00] Did they ever tell you or did you ever hear about, like, Beth Ellen having these bruises?

[00:30:06] I heard about the letter, but it never made much sense because I'm like, well, then she would have consistently had, you know, bruises and such on it.

[00:30:14] And as far as Walt recalled, she never had, you know, a bunch of bruises in that.

[00:30:20] And she'd wear tank tops and shorts in that.

[00:30:22] So I feel like that letter was bullshit.

[00:30:25] That letter never, you know, from what I knew about it and that, I'm like, that just doesn't make much sense.

[00:30:30] Yeah.

[00:30:31] One of the other theories that the cops have had over the years is that another neighbor.

[00:30:37] Yeah.

[00:30:38] What would have caused them to do it?

[00:30:40] And I don't think anybody really, unless they were like secretly obsessed with Beth Ellen or something.

[00:30:45] Like, did you ever hear anything like the guys saying, oh, you know, we had this weird neighbor or anything like that?

[00:30:52] No, I never, no one ever mentioned anything like a weird neighbor or, you know, her, you know, feeling like she was being, you know, usually you sense that.

[00:31:04] They never mentioned anything with her feeling like, you know, there was someone stalking her, obsessed with her or anything like that.

[00:31:13] So, no, I never heard anything like that.

[00:31:17] There's someone that's like that with a female.

[00:31:21] You're aware of it.

[00:31:22] Trust me.

[00:31:23] And if I, you know, in a relationship and there's some guy being weird with me and seeming obsessed and stalking or something, I'm definitely going to let the guy I'm in a relationship know.

[00:31:36] Like, look, man, there's this weird guy.

[00:31:38] He's freaking me out.

[00:31:39] He shows up everywhere I'm at.

[00:31:42] You know, and I've actually had it happen.

[00:31:44] So I know.

[00:31:46] And yeah, the first thing I do is tell someone I'm in a relationship with.

[00:31:51] You know, when Detective Morgan came over, he never mentioned anything like that.

[00:31:56] And that would have been something he was definitely made aware of.

[00:32:00] And that was really the only theory the guys would always kick around was like, yeah, it must be somebody.

[00:32:06] The kick around was that it was possibly the, you know, client from the airport service.

[00:32:12] That was always, you know, the only other thing they kicked around as far as who could have been a suspect.

[00:32:25] Were there ever times that you thought there was more to the story?

[00:32:29] Yeah, I mean, there were times they seemed, you know, awkward around each other.

[00:32:36] And I don't know.

[00:32:40] I did kind of question what happened there.

[00:32:45] But like I said, I don't know.

[00:32:47] I mean, all I can say is what I feel like.

[00:32:51] And I felt like they all had something they were hiding.

[00:33:05] But Walt never...

[00:33:08] Never confided in me about anything different than what he had told Detective Morgan.

[00:33:19] What about the murder weapon was like a three to four inch blade, apparently.

[00:33:24] Did you ever see any of the guys with a knife?

[00:33:26] Rick Hedford would play with knives.

[00:33:29] I mean, he had an interest in knives.

[00:33:32] Like I remember sitting there like carving into a table with a knife one night.

[00:33:37] So Rick did have knives?

[00:33:39] Yes.

[00:33:41] And he was carving into a table with a knife?

[00:33:43] Yeah, one night like we were sitting there drinking.

[00:33:46] And he was like carving into the table with a knife.

[00:33:49] And I remember thinking, well, okay, that's weird.

[00:33:53] Hmm.

[00:33:53] What kind of knife was it?

[00:33:55] It was a pocket knife.

[00:33:59] There's just stuff that...

[00:34:01] It seemed suspicious to me.

[00:34:03] No far effect that night because, you know, Walt told me.

[00:34:08] Ricky and her got into a very heated argument before she left that night.

[00:34:14] Yeah, you're 100% that Walt told you that.

[00:34:18] Yeah.

[00:34:20] And I mean, he did...

[00:34:22] Ricky did have a temper from my knowledge, you know, what I remember of him.

[00:34:27] One of the things that I've always thought about is that she obviously pulled over for somebody.

[00:34:34] The thing is that you're not going to pull over for just anybody at that time of night.

[00:34:40] So it had to be somebody she knew.

[00:34:43] With the psychology class I took when talking about crimes, stabbing is a crime of passion.

[00:34:49] That had to be someone that was closer to her.

[00:34:53] And did you ever bring all that up with Walt?

[00:34:56] Yeah.

[00:34:57] And what would he say?

[00:34:58] He just really wouldn't say much about it.

[00:35:00] He'd just kind of look at me and shrug and, you know, like he didn't want to talk about it.

[00:35:05] You know, tell me that I wasn't there so I didn't need to concern myself with it.

[00:35:10] Was that kind of Walt's personality?

[00:35:12] This was really the only thing he'd tell me I didn't need to concern myself with.

[00:35:18] My thing is, is that, you know, if you're actually...

[00:35:20] If they were saying, you know, they'd hate to find out he did it and that...

[00:35:23] My thing would be if you said he was there at the apartment with you guys, then you know he didn't do it.

[00:35:29] That's what I'm questioning.

[00:35:31] So it just did seem like, you know, he wasn't 100% certain that he didn't do it.

[00:35:38] So I don't know that seems odd.

[00:35:43] Because if what you're saying is that, you know, he was home and didn't do it,

[00:35:48] why would you even discuss, you know, the possibility of the time frame that Detective Morgan set out makes sense and such?

[00:36:04] Do you think that Walt would actually lie to the police to cover for Rick?

[00:36:12] In my honest opinion, I do believe he would because he didn't have friends besides them.

[00:36:31] So unfortunately, I do think he would.

[00:36:35] And he's a people pleaser, Walt is.

[00:36:40] And trust me, being married to him, I know.

[00:36:44] He went above and beyond to always please me.

[00:36:52] I mean, do you think that it's possible just knowing Walt as well as you do?

[00:36:56] Because, I mean, a lot of people are going to crack under pressure trying to lie to the police.

[00:37:01] And you get real anxious and nervous.

[00:37:03] I mean, do you think that Walt could maintain his cool if he was lying to the police?

[00:37:08] He is one that, I mean, he can maintain his cool.

[00:37:14] It takes a lot to get him going.

[00:37:18] He definitely would maintain composure.

[00:37:24] I mean, and there were times I know he wanted to, you know, get mad at that, but he wouldn't.

[00:37:31] But if you were with Walt for over 20 years, why would he never confide in you?

[00:37:38] I mean, the same reason anybody wouldn't because, I mean, you confide in the person you're with for all this time and that you love and that.

[00:37:49] And things don't work out, such as in, you know, the case with Walt and myself where we get divorced and that you have this fear that, well, they're going to tell on me that, you know, I can find it.

[00:38:01] And then that, you know, I lied to the cops or committed a crime or something.

[00:38:05] So that's why sometimes I believe people don't confide in their significant others.

[00:38:13] And so if he did lie and cover for Ricky, if they're no longer friends, why don't you think Walt would come forward and tell the truth now?

[00:38:22] The only reason I can think of is because there's, you know, you're still looking at getting in trouble for, you know, perjury.

[00:38:32] And for not being honest to begin with.

[00:38:34] If you have information about this case or know someone who might, call 1-866-TIPS-4-BE.

[00:38:55] That's 866-847-7423.

[00:39:00] Or email us at whokilledbethellen at gmail.com.

[00:39:11] Thank you to everyone who's reached out so far.

[00:39:14] And if you've been considering reaching out with information, whatever it is, but just haven't yet for whatever reason, now's the time.

[00:39:25] And I realize the past few episodes have focused on Ricky, but that's just the information that's been coming in.

[00:39:31] If you have information that can lead the investigation in another direction, someone you feel may be connected, please reach out.

[00:39:38] Every lead will be investigated until we get to the truth.

[00:39:45] Whether it's 2024, 2025, or 2026, there will be closure for her family and justice for Beth Ellen.

[00:39:56] Thank you for listening and stay tuned.

[00:39:59] Thank you.