Episode 4: Detective Faulk

[00:00:01] My wife went to school with Beth-Ellen. I don't know that they were friends necessarily, but they went to the same high school

[00:00:07] And so I've heard about the case through her

[00:00:10] And so then when I went to started working at on the police department and eventually went to the homicide unit

[00:00:17] I kind of already had that background about it

[00:00:19] And you know it turns out that several people that were

[00:00:23] Were friends and pretty good friends with Beth-Ellen. Well, I never knew her. I knew several of those people

[00:00:31] Going into this case does it make it a little different since there was that kind of personal connection?

[00:00:39] Yeah, for sure. Raleigh is about an hour hour and a half or so from where I actually grew up

[00:00:47] So it's not like I went to work for a police agency, you know near home

[00:00:52] And and wouldn't maybe it wouldn't be that uncommon to know somebody who may be involved in a case

[00:00:57] But I don't know that I've ever had another case. I've definitely never had another

[00:01:02] Homicide case that I was involved in

[00:01:05] Where I knew somebody involved

[00:01:20] Who killed Beth-Ellen Episode four over the years who had been the lead homicide detectives on Beth-Ellen's case

[00:01:31] This is former Raleigh PD detective Jerry Falk

[00:01:35] So the lead initially was John Lynch and back then they didn't have a cold case unit

[00:01:42] And they didn't have anyone dedicated to working what this became a cold case

[00:01:46] Full time until I went over there and started doing that later

[00:01:50] I say that to say that John Lynch had it when he was there

[00:01:55] After he left

[00:01:57] It wasn't really, you know, I think other detectives worked on it

[00:02:02] Here and there

[00:02:03] But nobody was really working it. I don't think full time until Chris Morgan got over there

[00:02:13] Thinking it was sometime in the late 90s

[00:02:16] early 2000

[00:02:19] And then he you know was interested in the case and started working it pretty heavily

[00:02:28] And then he retired and then I went over there in 2008

[00:02:37] Shortly after I got over there in 2008. I picked it up

[00:02:45] And I was interested in the case already

[00:02:53] And I continued working it until

[00:02:57] I left the homicide unit in 2017

[00:03:03] In the case technically that is found to another

[00:03:06] Detective but I even you know when something would come up. I would stay

[00:03:11] involved in the case

[00:03:15] Up until I retired at the end of last year

[00:03:18] So I worked it I guess from 2008

[00:03:21] Until I retired at the end of last year

[00:03:24] And so I guess the main people that you know, the main investigators on the case was initially John Lynch

[00:03:34] And then Chris Morgan

[00:03:39] And then myself

[00:03:52] So when you pick it up in 2008

[00:03:54] It had already been what about 14 years at that point

[00:03:58] How do you get started? Tell me about, you know, how you got started with your investigation

[00:04:02] Well, I'll say like

[00:04:05] This case was a massive. I mean a massive

[00:04:09] It was a big case file and I think there were six

[00:04:13] Six sounds right six banker boxes full of you know documents and different things

[00:04:20] So there was a lot of information

[00:04:22] So took some time just to go through and review the case because there was so much information already that

[00:04:29] That had been done taking that time to review the case and kind of familiarize myself with the case

[00:04:36] And then at that point doesn't start with basically square one. Let's let's re-interview everybody or what was what was the next steps?

[00:04:45] I'll tell you this

[00:04:46] You can kind of summarize the investigation up to the point that I started working on it

[00:04:56] Initially the investigation focused a lot on

[00:05:00] The guy who's at the hotel right because Beth Ellen leaves her apartment during the middle of the night

[00:05:05] You know, she was working for an escort agency. She gets a call to go to

[00:05:09] To a hotel to meet a guy

[00:05:12] And initially the investigation focused heavily on this guy at the hotel

[00:05:20] And it also included

[00:05:22] Beth Ellen's boyfriend, you know Ricky

[00:05:30] But it focused more in the beginning on this guy at the hotel

[00:05:38] Then when Chris Morgan took over the investigation and probably, you know, I'm sure after he rebuted and

[00:05:45] and kind of developed

[00:05:47] an opinion on what happened

[00:05:49] His part of the investigation focused more on

[00:05:53] The boyfriend on Ricky heat

[00:05:56] Obviously in the beginning and I think even when Chris worked on it

[00:05:59] There were there were several other things that were done. But if you're summarizing the investigation

[00:06:04] I think that's a good way to summarize it is

[00:06:06] In the beginning it focused a lot on the guy at the hotel

[00:06:11] When Chris was looking at it, it focused a lot on the boyfriend

[00:06:15] And then so when I started looking at it

[00:06:18] You know, I knew those two things and obviously as I'm reviewing the case file, you know, those two things those two

[00:06:26] suspects, if you will

[00:06:28] Kind of stick out glaringly

[00:06:30] But I wanted to try to like

[00:06:34] Open up the investigation a little bit and open my eyes a little bit

[00:06:38] And you know say is there anyone else of interest?

[00:06:43] Because I knew that a lot of effort had already been dedicated to those two people

[00:06:49] And I wanted to see where that, you know, where their investigations

[00:06:54] Ended or how they ended rather, you know, like

[00:06:57] If the guy at the hotel was a suspect, why was he never charged? What happened?

[00:07:03] You know, and if the boyfriend was a suspect, why was he never charged? What happened?

[00:07:07] But then also like who else can be included like who what other potential suspect

[00:07:12] What other people may also be somebody of interest

[00:07:15] So I kind of started looking at it when I start reviewing the case file

[00:07:18] That's kind of the opinion that I or I guess the path that I took is I'm looking at it as

[00:07:24] Okay, I know about these two guys, but who else is out there like what other information is out there that may

[00:07:32] You know may implicate somebody else having some involvement in the case

[00:07:40] Well and aside from those two

[00:07:43] The client at the hotel and boyfriend

[00:07:46] Were there other people

[00:07:48] That were really kind of drilled down on as a part of the investigation before you got to it

[00:07:57] You know, there were other people that were looked at for sure

[00:08:01] One avenue in particular

[00:08:04] That they looked at

[00:08:06] From the way that Beth Ellen from the victim's car

[00:08:10] Was found in the positioning of the car

[00:08:15] Some people thought

[00:08:17] Was there this blue light banded if you will, you know, if you're familiar with that term

[00:08:25] There's two possibilities. I guess with that like you could have a cop a law enforcement officer

[00:08:30] Who you know is doing things that are that are wrong and that are illegal, right?

[00:08:35] But I think the term normally refers to somebody who is not a

[00:08:39] Law enforcement officer, but who is pulling people over stopping people

[00:08:45] Under the uh ruse that they are

[00:08:49] A law enforcement officer so from the positioning of her car

[00:08:54] It was off of a major highway

[00:08:57] You know, and it was in a

[00:08:59] A lift area if you will like a parking lot of a car dealership, you know, so

[00:09:05] It didn't seem unreasonable. I guess based on the location of her car and the position of her car

[00:09:12] But nothing really ever came of it

[00:09:16] Definitely nothing in the case other than the positioning of her car

[00:09:20] To indicate that

[00:09:23] It was a blue light banded or it was a law enforcement officer that pulled her over

[00:09:36] What was the structure of the escort service?

[00:09:39] What did it look like how many people were running it and operating it and that kind of thing

[00:09:44] I don't remember specific as far as you know, specifically how many people work there

[00:09:49] I can just tell you that um

[00:09:54] Obviously the name of the escort service was class act and uh, but the umbrella company was called Denning

[00:10:01] Corp the owner was the last name Denning

[00:10:09] You know, so it was a legit business

[00:10:12] It wasn't this, you know, old guy that you know running in out of his basement or something like that

[00:10:18] There were managers. There were um, you know supervisors people in charge

[00:10:23] There were obviously you had the escorts and they were kind of spread out

[00:10:28] Across the country and then you hadn't you know, you had these call takers

[00:10:31] You had people that were you know answering the phone

[00:10:34] So the clients would call into this one a hunter number. It would be somebody on the other end

[00:10:54] That would take the call and that you would talk to you know and again as you can imagine

[00:10:59] You know a lot of your business for for this type of the escort service is going to happen at night

[00:11:05] so there were people

[00:11:06] Sitting in a location at night that when you called this one a hunter number

[00:11:12] Would take your call and then they would contact an escort that lived near where you were

[00:11:18] And dispatch them out to your location

[00:11:23] For my recollection, I know the the service class act

[00:11:27] The escort service was

[00:11:29] based in

[00:11:30] Virginia Beach

[00:11:31] Virginia

[00:11:33] And was it your understanding basically the call

[00:11:36] So the the owners were in virginia beach

[00:11:38] But the call center was in virginia beach whenever I think so my my

[00:11:44] Impression was that the the owners managers

[00:11:48] Call takers were in one location

[00:11:52] That's the impression that I got just reading through the police reports and stuff

[00:11:59] When Beth Ellen got a call. What was the protocol of how everything happened after that?

[00:12:04] Yeah, the normal protocol for the escort agency that you work for was

[00:12:10] That the client would call into the escort agency the escort service through

[00:12:15] You know like a one 800 number and they would talk to you know an operator somebody there on that end and tell them

[00:12:21] Their name and location

[00:12:23] You know and obviously a request for an escort. So then the escort service would then

[00:12:29] You know based on their location and where they were

[00:12:33] You know, they had different employees in different areas throughout the country

[00:12:36] So then based on wherever the client was they would contact

[00:12:41] One of their escort in that vicinity that area and say hey, we hit we have a client

[00:12:47] Over at this location. Do you want to go?

[00:12:54] And then they would give the escort the escort service would give the escort

[00:12:59] The contact information for the client then the escort would turn around and call the client

[00:13:05] Have a brief conversation with the client get a kind of feel the client out and then get a feel for whether

[00:13:11] They want to go or not

[00:13:13] Then they would call the escort service back the escort would call the escort service back

[00:13:18] And

[00:13:19] Say yay or nay, right? Yes. I'll take the call or no. I'm not well in this particular occasion

[00:13:26] We're told that Beth Ellen agrees to go on the call

[00:13:36] So the protocol was that you know once the escort

[00:13:41] Leaves to go to the

[00:13:44] Location and would just say hotel

[00:13:46] Motel once they arrive at the motel

[00:13:49] They're supposed to call and let the escort service

[00:13:53] So the first thing that they do is call from the room

[00:13:58] You know, we're saying it's a motel

[00:14:00] They call from the motel room and say hey, I'm here

[00:14:04] And that starts a clock ticking

[00:14:08] And I want to say it was 15 minutes

[00:14:10] It could have been 30 minutes

[00:14:12] But that starts a clock ticking of 15 minutes of then the escort service would

[00:14:19] In 15 minutes

[00:14:21] either the escort would

[00:14:24] Would call the escort service back within 15 minutes and say i'm done. I'm leaving

[00:14:30] or

[00:14:31] escort service

[00:14:32] Then call the hotel room

[00:14:35] In 15 minutes and say hey is everything okay?

[00:14:40] So that was kind of their safety protocol to make sure you know if she didn't answer

[00:14:46] Or if the client answered and said oh, she knows she's no longer here or whatever like that was their kind of

[00:14:52] internal safety protocol

[00:14:56] So that was kind of the way it was supposed to play out obviously

[00:14:59] on this particular occasion at Ben

[00:15:05] The client and the boyfriend when you got the case in 2008 had either of them been ruled out

[00:15:12] as suspects

[00:15:15] so

[00:15:16] When I got the case in 2008 the client

[00:15:22] Had been ruled out based on and in my mind personally

[00:15:26] Uh, I feel like he's ruled out but based on time constraints

[00:15:31] You know it's ruled out as a as a viable suspect because

[00:15:36] You know the client at the hotel. He's calling different. He's calling escort agencies to

[00:15:42] You know to try to get in escort to come to the hotel

[00:15:46] So they were like I said in the beginning spent a lot of energy

[00:15:50] Looking at this this guy at the hotel

[00:15:53] But they were able to put together enough information and build a timeline

[00:15:59] that essentially

[00:16:01] excluded him from being able to have enough time to because

[00:16:07] There's no indication

[00:16:09] that Beth Ellen

[00:16:11] ever made it to the hotel

[00:16:13] And so what wound up happening was

[00:16:16] another escort from a different agency

[00:16:20] Goes to the hotel

[00:16:22] to the same client

[00:16:24] He had you know contacted he had called

[00:16:28] I forget how many escort agencies but he had called several so another

[00:16:33] Escort from a different agency shows up

[00:16:37] At the hotel at his room and they confirmed that speak to the escort interview her the interview him

[00:16:44] They were able to kind of pinpoint the time that she gets there

[00:16:48] She took a taxi there

[00:16:49] And so they they even got the the taxi logs and confirmed and talked

[00:16:54] I think even interviewed the taxi driver

[00:16:56] And we're able to nail down the time that the taxi drops her off

[00:17:00] You know at the hotel and picks her up and that sort of thing

[00:17:02] So they're able to get a really good timeline on which she was there

[00:17:07] And so based on that time constraint

[00:17:10] Essentially are able to say look he doesn't physically have enough time

[00:17:14] to

[00:17:16] Go commit this murder go do these things, you know and be back

[00:17:21] at the hotel

[00:17:23] When this other escort shows up so

[00:17:26] On based on the time constraints

[00:17:29] They were able to

[00:17:31] You know essentially eliminate him as a as a viable suspect

[00:17:36] Now in at least some of the papers

[00:17:39] It was reported two ways that the client said Beth Ellen never showed up

[00:17:44] And that also that Beth Ellen had called the escort service and said that the client had never shown up

[00:17:51] Was that incorrect the second part that there was any evidence that Beth Ellen

[00:17:56] Called the escort service and said that the client never showed up

[00:18:02] No, uh, they're both correct

[00:18:08] So the client you know when they interviewed him says she never showed up and like I said

[00:18:16] I think that's true. I don't think she ever did show up at his room at the hotel

[00:18:21] I don't think he ever saw her

[00:18:24] But there's also indication that she called the escort agency and how'd you put it?

[00:18:30] Yeah, according to the paper

[00:18:32] It was it was both ways that the client said that Beth Ellen never showed up and then also Beth Ellen had called the escort service

[00:18:39] And the escort service said I guess they were told by Beth Ellen

[00:18:44] That the client never showed up. Oh, wow. So that that information was already in the paper

[00:18:52] That was in the paper. Yeah

[00:18:55] And I was wondering all right, um, where

[00:18:59] Where would Beth Ellen have made that call? That's a great question, man. And that's the question that I try to answer myself

[00:19:15] Because that

[00:19:16] So to answer your question those are both correct statements

[00:19:23] so

[00:19:24] The escort agency she was working with at the time that this happened

[00:19:28] They kept logs and so they actually had you know

[00:19:32] These employees that worked through the night or into the late hours of the night

[00:19:38] As you know what what I'll call dispatchers if you will

[00:19:43] So they interviewed these dispatchers they interviewed these people these employees at the corporate office

[00:19:49] and

[00:19:50] There was information

[00:19:52] on the log sheet

[00:19:55] that Beth Ellen called

[00:19:58] And said that the client wasn't out there

[00:20:05] And that's a question, you know, so

[00:20:08] I guess to go back to your original question earlier

[00:20:12] You know, what do you do

[00:20:14] When you have this case, you know, how do you start?

[00:20:18] As I'm reviewing a case

[00:20:21] What I'm looking for are these little things like that that don't make sense

[00:20:29] So that was one thing that I tried to explain as well. Like why is there there's this discrepancy of

[00:20:37] What the client is saying

[00:20:39] And what the escort agency is saying

[00:20:44] It's still kind of a question mark the dispatcher. I'm going to refer to the person as a dispatcher

[00:20:50] I don't know what their official title is, but the person taking the call their statement, you know is

[00:20:57] That and they have this log where Beth Ellen called and Beth Ellen said

[00:21:02] Okay, I'm going to go to the hotel

[00:21:05] And then there's this notation of well, he wasn't there, you know

[00:21:09] And according to the interview with the with the dispatcher

[00:21:14] He recollects that

[00:21:17] But you got to think about it now and I don't I don't want to

[00:21:21] For people to hear your podcast

[00:21:24] And they're like, oh, you know because you know, it's also a possibility that he's not remembering it right

[00:21:29] He's getting that confused with a with another escort. Maybe

[00:21:35] All those are possibilities

[00:21:37] To explain why

[00:21:39] There's this discrepancy, but

[00:21:43] to this day

[00:21:44] As far as I know

[00:21:46] That's still kind of a puzzle

[00:21:54] There's no real

[00:21:57] Concrete explanation as to why that is that way

[00:22:04] Hmm. Oh, yeah

[00:22:08] Yeah, that's an interesting one because

[00:22:10] Both ways and I didn't know if the paper made the mistake

[00:22:15] So were there phone records that were able to show when that call was made and from what number and all that kind of stuff

[00:22:23] Like that's what I was thinking too. Like what kind of phone record

[00:22:27] Can we look at and so I started looking at the phone records and

[00:22:32] You get a lot more information now

[00:22:35] When you get phone records than what you got back then in 1994

[00:22:41] Because back then essentially what they got

[00:22:45] You know, if you remember

[00:22:47] You would get like a phone bill right for a residential phone

[00:22:51] So the phone records that they have for this case file and in particular the phone records that they have for the apartment

[00:22:58] Where Beth Ellen was living the bill calls, right? That's all you got. That's all

[00:23:04] They kept a record of so that's the phone records. So there are

[00:23:10] records to show

[00:23:13] When Beth Ellen called the escort agency

[00:23:16] There are records from the other end to show when the escort agency called Beth Ellen

[00:23:21] There are records to show when Beth Ellen called the hotel

[00:23:25] You know, so there are records to show the time stamps that correlate with those calls

[00:23:32] From all the records that were in the case file, there's no records to corroborate

[00:23:38] What this dispatcher is saying

[00:23:44] In the notation that they have

[00:23:47] On their log sheet that says he wasn't there

[00:23:52] It's not documented what time or anything. So it's um, there is this

[00:23:58] question mark between those two

[00:24:01] and

[00:24:02] Yeah, we don't know if

[00:24:04] He got her confused with another person or even if somebody else

[00:24:10] Called in

[00:24:11] That's possible too. That's possible

[00:24:15] I mean, you would think it would be a female at least, you know, right, you know a male voice calling in would

[00:24:22] Should throw up a red flag and I think he would have said that, you know, if that had happened

[00:24:27] so

[00:24:28] That's still kind of a question mark

[00:24:30] And that wasn't the only thing puzzling about the phone records in this case

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[00:25:57] You know, I started digging in really to phone records from

[00:26:02] the apartment

[00:26:04] that Beth Ellen lived at because

[00:26:06] Think about it today like everybody has a cell phone, right? And you know, you may say their whole life

[00:26:11] It's in that cell phone or this is back before cell phones. So how do people communicate? You know, obviously through a landline

[00:26:18] you know, I started

[00:26:20] digging a lot into the

[00:26:22] The phone records from their apartment just to kind of see what their life what was going on in their life at the time

[00:26:28] as you would expect you see some phone calls to

[00:26:32] Friends and family

[00:26:34] You know order on pizzas late at night, you know as college age people do and

[00:26:40] You know, you see all that sort of stuff. But there was also some other information, you know that kind of

[00:26:46] Became interesting as I'm looking through

[00:26:49] Some of those phone calls

[00:26:51] Yeah, and actually Karen

[00:26:53] Beth Ellen's friend Karen brought up. So I was hanging out with a group of friends one night and

[00:26:58] W or EL something popped up, you know on the screen just randomly of kind of a little recap of this murder case

[00:27:06] Is still on saw blah blah blah

[00:27:08] couple looks at me and they were like, did you know her and I was like, yeah

[00:27:12] And

[00:27:14] I was like why and the guy had lived in the apartment next to Ricky and Beth Ellen

[00:27:24] And they had all been questioned

[00:27:26] Because that night they had had a huge party in their apartment

[00:27:36] And somehow and my friend was like we have no idea

[00:27:42] How this happened, but somehow there was a phone call between those two apartments

[00:27:52] He was like we had so many people there. You know, it was like the first weekend back at school

[00:27:58] Everybody was having parties. So people were just kind of hopping from apartment to apartment kind of thing

[00:28:04] We have no idea who picked up the phone

[00:28:06] We had no idea what who called like we had we had no idea that because it

[00:28:12] Apparently there was a phone call between the two apartments

[00:28:15] And you know, he said I remember her, you know walking from her car to the apartment and that kind of thing

[00:28:20] But like we didn't really hang out with those guys or anything

[00:28:26] And what was his name the neighbor

[00:28:28] Which one was

[00:28:29] It's not his brother is David. This is Jonathan

[00:28:35] Yes, there's the guy named Jonathan living in the same building in the neighbor's apartment as Beth Ellen and

[00:28:41] Richie and Brian and Walt

[00:28:43] It wasn't only him. There were four guys that lived there at the time

[00:28:48] There was a phone call that was made from Beth Ellen's apartment to that apartment

[00:28:54] The thing that made that particular call

[00:28:57] Interesting it was on the same day on the same night and around the same time that Beth Ellen would have left

[00:29:07] her apartment

[00:29:09] to go meet the

[00:29:11] client

[00:29:25] I was able to do some follow-up with the phone company and we were able to determine. Yes, there was a connection that was made

[00:29:33] albeit that could be

[00:29:35] An answering machine, you know

[00:29:38] But there was some sort of connection that receiver was picked up on the other end if you will

[00:29:44] It wasn't outgoing call

[00:29:46] From Beth Ellen's apartment to this neighbor an apartment

[00:29:49] But when you talk to the neighbors and then

[00:29:51] You followed up with with Ricky and the guys in their apartment

[00:29:55] No one had any knowledge about that call. Yeah, that's what uh, that's what makes this so curious

[00:30:02] That Ricky Brian Walt

[00:30:05] claimed

[00:30:06] Not to know these neighbors and the four neighbors

[00:30:11] Claim not to know

[00:30:13] Ricky briner walked

[00:30:22] or Beth Ellen however

[00:30:30] There is some information that

[00:30:34] They had seen

[00:30:36] Beth Ellen

[00:30:38] You know and not had conversation with her but just seen her

[00:30:47] So that made it, you know made it pretty interesting

[00:30:52] You brought up the fact that I believe you said Karen had you know brought up this guy Jonathan

[00:30:58] Well, that that's you know, what kind of precipitated that

[00:31:02] Questioning of these, you know, these particular neighbors

[00:31:09] But according to those neighbors they had never hung out with Beth Ellen

[00:31:14] That's right. That's right

[00:31:24] So obviously if Ricky Brian or Walt didn't make that call

[00:31:28] You kind of think that potentially Beth Ellen

[00:31:31] Made that call for some reason, you know and just trying to think about what that call could have meant and why that happened

[00:31:39] Were there any

[00:31:40] thoughts you could share about that

[00:31:46] There was a

[00:31:48] And I'm trying to recollect but I think

[00:31:52] At least one or two other phone calls that were made to other neighbors

[00:31:57] Late at night not on this same night, um, but earlier, you know earlier dates

[00:32:04] I'm not one to to theorize, you know, so I'm not I'm not doing that

[00:32:09] But it did, you know, it does kind of

[00:32:11] Make you wonder if it wasn't Ricky or Brian or Walt

[00:32:15] That are making these calls and it could have been but if it wasn't and if it was Beth Ellen

[00:32:21] Why is she calling neighbors, you know late at night?

[00:32:27] So it just kind of makes you wonder and ask that question why

[00:32:35] It makes you think that possibly she

[00:32:38] Did know these people you would think because you know, you would actually have to have their number number one

[00:32:48] And you would actually have to dial their number, right?

[00:32:52] And you would have to feel comfortable. I would think to dial their number late at night

[00:32:58] and

[00:33:00] Why is that?

[00:33:08] And this is a 17 year old girl

[00:33:12] Who you know has taken a job

[00:33:16] With an escort agency and going to meet, you know strangers, you know, and I

[00:33:22] I think it's common knowledge. She had only done that a handful of times, you know

[00:33:26] So it's not like she had done it a lot, but she was willing to do that. I guess

[00:33:34] And so like is she willing

[00:33:38] To maybe do that for or do something similar I don't know

[00:33:44] People who lived close by

[00:33:50] I don't know. I don't know the answer. Those are some of the questions if you're asking, you know

[00:33:55] Some of the thoughts that

[00:33:57] Came about as part of that, you know, that's how I would answer that question

[00:34:01] That's some of the thoughts that kind of came about, you know

[00:34:05] But I wasn't able to really answer that question as concretely as I would have liked to

[00:34:11] But I think it's still

[00:34:13] A puzzle that needs to be solved and answer a question that needs to be answered

[00:34:19] And did you come across any neighbors in the apartment complex that Beth Ellen did hang out with?

[00:34:25] I was able to determine

[00:34:27] again based on the phone records and

[00:34:30] You know a late night call

[00:34:32] That there was another neighbor in the apartment

[00:34:35] Who she had had conversations with

[00:34:38] He remembered her he

[00:34:41] Told me that he had had conversations with her

[00:34:46] I think the fact that

[00:34:48] A 17 year old girl

[00:34:50] Is calling number one

[00:34:53] Somebody that she hasn't known that long because she's only lived there, you know just over a month

[00:34:59] Calling them late at night, you know, this is after midnight hours calling them late at night and then having conversations with them

[00:35:07] I mean she's 17

[00:35:09] This particular person's a little bit older

[00:35:12] Or was a little bit older at the time

[00:35:14] So, you know, I think that in itself is suspicious

[00:35:18] But he didn't tell me anything that happened that made it more suspicious than that

[00:35:27] There were other phone calls and

[00:35:30] The recipient of that phone call

[00:35:32] They've never been determined. That's right. And they kind of fall in that same pattern of

[00:35:37] Late night calls

[00:35:39] short conversations phone numbers that need to be identified

[00:35:48] Whether you're able to do that or not is, you know

[00:35:52] I mean that's a difficult task because

[00:35:55] You know, you're you're 30 years

[00:35:57] Away from that information, you know, if this had happened last week, you know, you could call it bell south or atnp

[00:36:04] And say hey, I need this information but

[00:36:07] But it's difficult now

[00:36:11] What's your understanding about how everyone felt about that Ellen living in that apartment?

[00:36:18] And if you know, there was a feeling about her being a escort

[00:36:22] I never really got into that with Ricky or or brown or what

[00:36:27] my best

[00:36:28] understanding is that

[00:36:30] based on what other investigators maybe

[00:36:33] were told before was Ricky didn't really care for it necessarily

[00:36:38] Understandably, you know, if this is somebody that he's

[00:36:41] dating or romantically involved with

[00:36:45] But at the same time, you know, she was pretty headstrong person and determined to do it

[00:36:51] So he allowed or not allowed this wrong word, but you know just allowed it to happen. I guess, you know, just accepted it, I guess

[00:37:00] And then Brian and Walt, I mean, I don't even they may have been but I don't remember

[00:37:05] They were ever even questioned as far as what their opinion was of Beth Ellen working for an escort agency

[00:37:11] And did you get a sense just their overall feeling about uh, Beth Ellen?

[00:37:16] being their roommate

[00:37:18] I don't know that won't really, you know, I think he was pretty chill about it. Didn't care really

[00:37:24] I think there was a little bit of um

[00:37:26] You know, and again, I'm just regurgitating

[00:37:29] You know some things that I've read from earlier reports, you know, it was never really a focus of what I did but

[00:37:37] Things like there maybe was

[00:37:39] Because it was like she was staying there

[00:37:42] Rent free so maybe there was a little bit of um

[00:37:46] Rift there because you know, she had been there for you know a little over a month. I guess a month and a half and

[00:37:54] Kind of pretty much living there for free. I think there was a little pinch in there because of that but

[00:37:59] Having her staying there, you know, I don't know if there was any other issue

[00:38:04] I'm not aware of any other issue besides that

[00:38:10] Do you know if she was sleeping on the couch or was she sleeping in Ricky's room or what what that dynamic was?

[00:38:17] To best of my understanding she was sleeping in Ricky's room

[00:38:22] Okay, and it was a three bedroom apartment

[00:38:25] Yes

[00:38:26] Uh, actually I take that back

[00:38:29] Let me think here first. It may have been a four bedroom. It was a four bedroom actually, uh, but the fourth roommate

[00:38:37] And I cannot remember his name

[00:38:40] Was not there had gone home

[00:38:43] I don't know about for the whole summer but had gone home for an extended period, you know

[00:38:48] This was like right during the summer

[00:38:50] Break of nc state and school had not started back up for fall semester yet

[00:38:56] So he had gone home and he wasn't up there when all this

[00:39:00] Transpired but I think it was a four bedroom actually

[00:39:02] And is that your understanding that Ricky and Beth Ellen they were sleeping in the same room

[00:39:08] They were boyfriend and girlfriend for all intensive persons

[00:39:11] I mean that's my

[00:39:14] Understanding, uh, how serious either one of them was about that relationship

[00:39:19] I don't know. I think different different people different investigators have different opinions about that

[00:39:25] I personally never really, you know, developed

[00:39:29] A an opinion about that but yeah, that was my understanding that they were in some kind of romantic dating boyfriend girlfriend

[00:39:36] relationship

[00:39:42] What can you share about what was happening

[00:39:45] with everybody

[00:39:47] the evening before leading up into

[00:39:50] Um, Beth Ellen leaving for that as we're called

[00:39:58] So Brian and waltin and and ricky too. They had a friend named Eric this particular night

[00:40:09] Uh, eric was moving

[00:40:12] So Beth Ellen and ricky were just kind of hanging out at the apartment

[00:40:15] Brian had gone over

[00:40:18] To help eric move

[00:40:20] And then walt was at work, you know, this is earlier. So then walt gets off work

[00:40:26] I think he was having a car of troubles or for some reason

[00:40:29] Didn't have a car that night and brine went to go pick him up. So brine goes to pick up walt for work

[00:40:36] And where was walt working at the time?

[00:40:39] So he was working at a uh, I believe it's a wind dig sea up there in north hills

[00:40:44] Now it's a Harris teeter but back in 94

[00:40:47] It was a wind dig sea located at 44 21 six forks road

[00:40:53] So

[00:40:55] brine goes to pick up walt from work

[00:40:58] Do you know what time uh, he picked up walt from work?

[00:41:02] He got off at 11 so it would have been around 11 and so they go back home for a little bit

[00:41:08] If walt walked out the door of wind dig sea at 11 and they went straight back to their apartment

[00:41:14] That would put them back right about 11 15

[00:41:18] And then pretty quickly

[00:41:20] They go back over to eric's and continue to help eric move

[00:41:24] According to records, it looks like eric was living in their apartment complex

[00:41:29] Avery close and was moving into an apartment less than a mile away

[00:41:33] Shortly before 2 a.m. Um, they leave eric's they remember being close to 2 a.m. Because they were going they stopped to get some beer

[00:41:43] Uh at the convenience store at the beer store on the way back to the apartment and they remember

[00:41:49] Being close to 2 a.m

[00:41:52] You know then they went back to the apartment and you know at that time

[00:41:56] Ricky and bettellin were there at the apartment alone and

[00:42:00] I want you movies and just kind of chilling and i think uh

[00:42:03] Beth ellen had gotten

[00:42:05] A call from the escort agency

[00:42:08] that night

[00:42:10] So that night monday night she was already in contact

[00:42:14] I guess the escort service had had called her earlier that night to

[00:42:19] See if she was available or

[00:42:21] I can't remember if they called her or she called them

[00:42:25] To say hey, I am available or to say you know, but I do best in my recollection

[00:42:31] There was earlier communication between

[00:42:33] her and the escort agency

[00:42:40] prior to

[00:42:42] This particular call where she's supposed to go to the hotel on capital boulevard

[00:42:50] And so she gets this call

[00:42:52] You know in the time the timings they were able to corroborate through different records

[00:42:57] You know in pinpoint the timing of those calls, but I think suffice to say

[00:43:03] between 2 a.m

[00:43:05] And uh, to 30 to 45

[00:43:08] There's this exchange of phone calls or these series of calls between

[00:43:13] You know bettellin escort agency and the client at the hotel

[00:43:17] Where basically she gets the call to go through the hotel

[00:43:22] I think when she actually gets the call and then starts that conversation

[00:43:27] With the escort service and with the client at the motel

[00:43:30] I think brine and wallop again from my recollection had already left they had gone out

[00:43:36] Run up to there's a 24 hour walmart

[00:43:40] of bauf glennwood avenue

[00:43:43] That they run up to walmart. Do you recall what time they left that evening? That was never pinpointing exactly

[00:43:51] And the best estimate that the investigators got was around 2 a.m

[00:43:59] So they left

[00:44:01] To go to walmart at 2 a.m

[00:44:04] Mm-hmm

[00:44:07] What were they getting?

[00:44:09] I don't remember what they were getting

[00:44:11] But they were you know, there was a purpose for them going. I just don't remember what it was

[00:44:16] um, did the investigators

[00:44:19] Find that curious at all or do you I mean do you find that curious that you know

[00:44:23] Why would you leave it two in the morning?

[00:44:28] To go to walmart, I guess, you know

[00:44:32] The flips or not the flip side, but I guess something to consider too is

[00:44:39] You know

[00:44:40] their

[00:44:42] 18 19 20 years old. I mean walpt for instance

[00:44:48] Um, I'd just gotten off of work. You know, uh if you're you know

[00:44:53] You know

[00:44:54] If that's your life, you know and you're

[00:44:57] You know working late and you're up at you know in the you know for me and you right now

[00:45:03] You know

[00:45:04] At this stage in our life. Yeah, that seems unusual but

[00:45:08] um

[00:45:09] But for 20 year old that's probably not unusual

[00:45:14] I know that they asked them about it. They tried to to pinpoint that down when they interviewed them as far as

[00:45:21] What they were shopping for what they got but you know, I don't remember what it was

[00:45:26] They were shopping for all I know it was around 2 a.m

[00:45:31] That they said that they left

[00:45:33] So that walmart is located at 6600 glennwood avenue

[00:45:38] Up past the crab tree mall

[00:45:40] It's still there today and at two in the morning with no traffic

[00:45:44] It probably would have taken them about 16 17 minutes to get up there putting them at walmart

[00:45:49] About 2 20 a.m

[00:45:52] And I guess it's not crazy to think two college guys who were on more of a late night schedule

[00:45:57] Would go to walmart at 2 20 a.m

[00:46:00] But given their new roommate was likely getting murdered right around the window of time of this walmart run

[00:46:09] It makes it very interesting

[00:46:14] What did they need?

[00:46:16] What were they shopping for

[00:46:18] After 2 a.m

[00:46:20] Do you know if they were aware that that's Ellen was getting ready to go see a client when they were there

[00:46:26] Around that 2 a.m. Time before they left for walmart

[00:46:29] Before they left to go to walmart

[00:46:31] There was some conversation or they were both aware

[00:46:35] That she was getting ready to leave or had had gotten a call to leave or you know something like that

[00:46:41] Yeah, you know it wasn't pinpointed

[00:46:46] exactly

[00:46:48] When Beth Ellen left the apartment, I think the best guess is between

[00:46:53] 230 and you know three sometime between

[00:46:57] That time frame of when she leaves her apartment

[00:47:03] When they get back around three

[00:47:06] Ricky says that Beth Ellen

[00:47:08] Had just left just a few minutes earlier and then all of them wound up going to sleep

[00:47:14] Around the same time around 4 a.m

[00:47:18] And then what time?

[00:47:21] Say they woke up or Ricky woke up

[00:47:27] I want to say it was around 7 30 that Ricky wakes up obviously

[00:47:31] Realizes Beth Ellen's not there and starts calling around trying to figure out where she's at

[00:47:37] I think calls, you know friends because the escort agency

[00:47:42] And trying to figure out

[00:47:44] Where she's at

[00:47:46] I think he calls, you know bettellins friend kelly

[00:47:50] Uh somehow Beth Ellen was deterred off the side of the road pulled over in a little car lot

[00:47:57] She went missing

[00:48:00] This is david Beth Ellen's best friend kelly's dad

[00:48:06] And you'll remember david was married to ricky's older sister portia

[00:48:11] Well here comes the strangest part

[00:48:15] When rick was notified that she was missing

[00:48:19] He comes to our house

[00:48:24] And without asking me he stayed there

[00:48:32] And he would put a little blanket over his shoulders and that dumbest hell like

[00:48:37] He was severely traumatized

[00:48:48] Well, couldn't you have been traumatized because you just found out that his girlfriend was murdered?

[00:48:52] Well, but first of all matt she got missing if you lived in the avent close apartments in 1994

[00:49:15] Know someone who did or have any information on that apartment complex back then

[00:49:21] Or any information that may help this investigation

[00:49:24] Call 1-866-TIPS-4-BE

[00:49:32] That's 866-847-7423

[00:49:36] Or email us at who killed bettellin at gmail.com

[00:49:43] If you're in the north carolina area and want to help email us

[00:49:47] For more information on the case and pictures check out our website

[00:49:54] At bettellinpodcast.com and follow us on facebook instagram and twitter

[00:50:02] 2024

[00:50:04] The year for closure for her family

[00:50:08] And justice for bettellin

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